mustang wont start after head and cam swap

88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#22
#22
ok so the motor is definitely a non-roller motor, and almost positive its an HO. so heres some pics i have. not sure if one of the pictures is the casting numbers or not, i just posted it just in case it is

 non roller correct?

 casting numbers?

 flat tappet lifters that were in the motor, definitely a non-roller block
 
88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#24
#24
You know what? Your right. It might ne a roller block. The motor came out of a bronco at one point. I've been researching and I heard the trucks used roller blocks but had flat tappet cams. It's starting to make sense now
 
Jays04mach1

Jays04mach1

Well-Known Member
#25
#25
Definetly a roller block. It's out of an 88. The question now is do you have the lifter retainers and spider setup to keep the rollers on the cam correctly? If not, I have a BRAND NEW complete retainer and spider assembly. Let me know. Once this is corrected, Getting this running will be easy. The next headache is figuring out if you have the stock rockers which wouldn't need pushrod guide plates or a set that requires guideplates.
 
88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#26
#26
I don't have the retainers and spider setup, there was never one in the car. What else do I need for this to work, I bought Ford racing roller lifters, new (shorter) pushrods, and valve springs. I will buy the retainer setup, send me a pm
 
EHA Racing

EHA Racing

Member Plus
#28
#28
OK wait a minute here.
You have a 302 roller block that was built from Jasper with hydraulic flat tappet lifters. I get that. Did you install roller lifters without the spider and retainers and try to run it? If so I can almost guarantee that your TFS cam is now junk. I wouldn't be surprised if some rollers are tore up as well.
Also, call me crazy but why are the pistons upside down?? Who told you it was bored to a 331? It may be bore .030" over which would make it a 306. You need a 3.25" stroke crank to make a 331.
I'm not criticizing, only trying to help. There are a lot of odd things going on here that need to be cleared up.
 
EHA Racing

EHA Racing

Member Plus
#29
#29
The block is a roller block because of the mounting points cast into the valley for the spider to bolt down.
Also, there is no such thing as a H.O. Block. The cam is what determines the firing order of an engine, not the block. The engine was called an H.O. (high output) because it used a hydraulic roller cam with the firing order of a 351W and produced for power than a flat tappet engine with a 302 firing order.
 
88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#30
#30
you right it probably it bored to a 306, i was told a 331. i really dont care thats my least concern.
ok so far we figured out this. its probably a 306, not a 331. im using the right firing order. my block is a roller block. i need that lifter retainer. need retightening of my rocker arms bolts. anything else? im going to pull the intake off and check my lifters and take a peek at my cam, shouldnt be extremely bad since it only started once and ran for literally a split second, when i put the lifters in i made sure they were facing the right way so that the lifter rolls with the lobes of the cam (even though that dosent matter not since im buying that lifter retainer)
- i knew something wasnt right here, since i imagined the lifters would move and eventually not roll with the cam lobes when i installed them
 
EHA Racing

EHA Racing

Member Plus
#31
#31
88foxbody said:
you right it probably it bored to a 306, i was told a 331. i really dont care thats my least concern.
ok so far we figured out this. its probably a 306, not a 331. im using the right firing order. my block is a roller block. i need that lifter retainer. need retightening of my rocker arms bolts. anything else? im going to pull the intake off and check my lifters and take a peek at my cam, shouldnt be extremely bad since it only started once and ran for literally a split second, when i put the lifters in i made sure they were facing the right way so that the lifter rolls with the lobes of the cam (even though that dosent matter not since im buying that lifter retainer) - i knew something wasnt right here, since i imagined the lifters would move and eventually not roll with the cam lobes when i installed them
Click to expand...
Just turning the engine over could have destroyed the cam. They are very delicate and the smallest scratch or pit will soon turn into a total failure so make sure you look it it very closely. Not just one look from the top, turn the engine over by hand with the lifters out and check every lobe. Then go back and check every lifter.

One of my biggest concerns, which you didn't comment on is the fact that the pistons are upside down. The valve reliefs should be on the top. I am curious as to why they assembled it that way.


You also need to research pushrod length checking and follow the proper procedure. Just guessing what length pushrods you need is not going to help you at all. Get the right pushrods, the right rocker arms and make sure the lash is correct or it will never run optimum.

*EDIT* Just realized you have pedestal mount rocker arms. there is NO ADJUSTMENT on them. They should be torqued to about 23 ft./lbs. If the pushrods are wrong it will only make things worse. I wish you were closer I could take care of all these things for you.
 
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88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#32
#32
EHA Racing said:
Just turning the engine over could have destroyed the cam. They are very delicate and the smallest scratch or pit will soon turn into a total failure so make sure you look it it very closely. Not just one look from the top, turn the engine over by hand with the lifters out and check every lobe. Then go back and check every lifter.

One of my biggest concerns, which you didn't comment on is the fact that the pistons are upside down. The valve reliefs should be on the top. I am curious as to why they assembled it that way.

You also need to research pushrod length checking and follow the proper procedure. Just guessing what length pushrods you need is not going to help you at all. Get the right pushrods, the right rocker arms and make sure the lash is correct or it will never run optimum.
Click to expand...
I bought the right pushrods, I did my research. And how are they upside down, there's valve reliefs on the top too. And I will make sure there is no damage to the lifters/cam
 
EHA Racing

EHA Racing

Member Plus
#33
#33
88foxbody said:
I bought the right pushrods, I did my research. And how are they upside down, there's valve reliefs on the top too. And I will make sure there is no damage to the lifters/cam
Click to expand...
The picture you posted I couldn't see the top valve reliefs. Looked like pistons with 2 reliefs that were just on the bottom.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you find out what pushrods you need?
 
88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#34
#34
Yea usually when I show that picture everyone thinks the same thing as you lol. And I had a friend who had the same setup as me and told me the size, the pushrods I originally had with the flat tappet cam were approximately a half inch longer than the ones I have now
 
EHA Racing

EHA Racing

Member Plus
#35
#35
88foxbody said:
Yea usually when I show that picture everyone thinks the same thing as you lol. And I had a friend who had the same setup as me and told me the size, the pushrods I originally had with the flat tappet cam were approximately a half inch longer than the ones I have now
Click to expand...
No 2 engines are the same. deck height may be different, head deck thickness may be different, gasket thickness may be different. the only way to get the correct length is to measure with a pushrod length checker. They are $10 from Summit racing. If you decide to do it I will give you instructions.
 
88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#36
#36
EHA Racing said:
No 2 engines are the same. deck height may be different, head deck thickness may be different, gasket thickness may be different. the only way to get the correct length is to measure with a pushrod length checker. They are $10 from Summit racing. If you decide to do it I will give you instructions.
Click to expand...
Sounds good ill order one later
 
88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#38
#38
Ok so while im waiting on the retainer kit and pushrod tool, I figured I'd share some pics of my cam that originally was in my car, im no cam expert but from these pics I think it was time to be replaced anyway. burn/scorch marks everywhere along with numerous chips :nono:

 little chips

 more chips

 another chip along with a really bad scratch/burn? im not sure what the hell that is
 
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88foxbody

88foxbody

Active Member
#40
#40
Ohhh ok, good to know. Also I was trying to find out what kind if cam it was. I was looking for a grind # or part # and all I saw was an L engraved on it.
 
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