65 Mustang Convertible -- GT 350 Clone -- DMV ??

[classicpony]

Classic Owners -- I have a 1965 Ford Mustang convertible that came from down south. When i went to register the vehicle, DMV is having a hard time locating the VIN -- they said they need a VIN TRACE (basically a pencil etching of the VIN on paper) in order to verify the vin. So I went, got the VIN Trace done (even took a pic and brought it in), and still they have an issue verifying the VIN... Now they are requesting a Police Officer come and verify the VIN on the mustang... has anyone in the 5 boroughs run into this before for their classic car? if so, where did they go to get this taken care of?

Also -- i checked my VIN against instavin.com and that too can't be found, but i put in other VINS of classic mustangs for sale, (same year) and they are found... what gives?

 

[ponyboy289]

Hi,
I feel for you. Dealing with the DMV Is never easy or fun,especially on older stuff. That said what exactly are you looking to do, I assume register the car? If that is the case,when you bought the car were you given any paper work for it (Title, transferrable registration,bill of sale,etc.)If so what exactly ? What state was the car last registered in?

Typically with a vin trace you trace it like you did and then you fill out a dmv form(I don't recall it offhand) ,pay the fee and wait for your paperwork. There isn't usually more to it than that.

As far as your vin, I've never heard of or used instavin, but a possible explanation there is maybe your car hasn't been registered in a bunch of years, so there is no record of it?


I've dealt with different paper work issues on 60's Ford over the years ,I've solved them by

1) using a title company (Like Broadway Title, "Mainly Title",etc.)
or
2) Going through the dmv(tracing,etc.)
or
3) even going as far as registering them in other states first

Out of curiosity I assume the first five digits of your vin are 5f08 followed by a letter engine code (A,C,K,or T) .I'm curious on this. I've seen coupes titled as verts and vice versa,etc over the years. I've also seen where the whole thing can get mixed up because one digit can be off on your vin. Maybe this is why it's getting kicked out of the system? Personally I would do some more digging before I started asking police officers to inspect my car,unless of course they were a good friend or a relative.

Once I know what papers you have , I can hopefully help steer you in the right direction.

 

[classicpony]

@Ponyboy289 -- yes, i am trying to register the vehicle in NY, but its so painful. I have the title, bill of sale, and even proof the vehicle was registered in florida (Expiration for the registration in florida shows as 3/2013) but still, DMV isn't budging... my VIN is actually weird, its 5R08FXXXXXX... But when i run it through the decoders, they seem to match and make sense...

**typo -- VIN = 5R08FXXXXXX

 

[mabcim]

That VIN does seem a little odd. Are you getting off the door tag or the top of the driver's side inner fender? Door tags are easy to make up, I see restorers that do that so the door tag matches the color they painted the car. The inner fender is the 'true' VIN. But if the fender was replaced at some point, then there might not be anything there.
I say the VIN seems odd is because the R means it was built in San Jose and the F means it is a 260. The 260 was only in the 64 1/2 and, as far as I know, all 64 1/2s were built in Dearborn.

 

[ponyboy289]

@Ponyboy289 -- yes, i am trying to register the vehicle in NY, but its so painful. I have the title, bill of sale, and even proof the vehicle was registered in florida (Expiration for the registration in florida shows as 3/2013) but still, DMV isn't budging... my VIN is actually weird, its 5R08FXXXXXX... But when i run it through the decoders, they seem to match and make sense...

**typo -- VIN = 5R08FXXXXXX

Hey,
First to comment on this,that makes no sense? What is the gripe that Dmv has with you, What is the exact reason they are giving you for not allowing this to go through?

As far as your vin as Mabcim points out,that Vin is odd because in order for the fifth digit to be F the second digit would be F .
Now leaving this piece alone for a moment. If you were to walk into a N.Y. Dmv with the title (or transferrable registration) , A valid/current insurance card in your name and a NEW YORK DMV YELLOW bill of sale form (This I left caps because it is not optional,trust me. ) If the vin on those 3 pieces of paper match up there shouldn't be a problem. I'm curious to hear Dmv's reason and then I'll comment further,totally annoying,I can't stand dealing with the DMV.

 

[classicpony]

thanks for the feedback folks -- i do agree, after i did some hw on the VINS it did seem odd that this was a San Jose car... very odd, and the car was successfully registered in Florida and California which makes it more rare. Ive provided those three exact things to DMV Ponyboy -- and they tell me the same nonsense -- they keep saying no matter how i enter the VIN in the system, its not coming up. Not sure what that means, or why they are saying that... or for that matter, why it even matters when i have the title showing the VIN, Insurance, Bill of Sale AND proof it was registered in Florida with that same VIN... Not sure what the confusion is to be honest... but I did manage to find a police officer that knows what needs to be done and he's coming to take care of the paper work on it tomorrow. (HAPPY ABOUT THIS), will keep you guys posted on progress.

 

[mabcim]

The other option would be to contact the Vintage Plate department. I know you are not talking plates yet, but I have heard that they know more about vintage cars and maybe more helpful then just walking into a local DMV.

Also, you did say if the pencil trace you did was from the door tag or the inner fender? I'm curious if those two match up.

 

[ponyboy289]

Classic Owners -- I have a 1965 Ford Mustang convertible that came from down south. When i went to register the vehicle, DMV is having a hard time locating the VIN -- they said they need a VIN TRACE (basically a pencil etching of the VIN on paper) in order to verify the vin. So I went, got the VIN Trace done (even took a pic and brought it in), and still they have an issue verifying the VIN... Now they are requesting a Police Officer come and verify the VIN on the mustang... has anyone in the 5 boroughs run into this before for their classic car? if so, where did they go to get this taken care of?

Also -- i checked my VIN against instavin.com and that too can't be found, but i put in other VINS of classic mustangs for sale, (same year) and they are found... what gives?

I'd be very curious as to what the full vin of your car is as well as the scheduled build date(on the door tag). If you don't feel like posting or P/ming it too me ,I understand.
As far as I understand it no Mustang "D" ,"F" ,or "U" codes were produced at the San jose plant. Ford built all of the early stangs at Dearborn. When demand went crazy they quickly retooled and started production at Metuchen (code T) and San Jose (code R) . But by then the early 65 (64 1/2) motors were done. Digging through my extensive Mustang library The earliest San jose vin I'm coming up with is 5R07K125012 and that car has a scheduled build date of August 3rd 1965. Is your vin or build date lower than these by chance? Other sources are telling me that production on the Mustang began on July 13th 1964 at San jose. honestly there are a few more variables ,but my fingers won't let me type them all, If your car was built after August 1964,it's considered a 65 . Does your car have an alternator or a generator?

As an early Mustang Geek/Historian I'm dying to know your numbers for my own curiosity.

I'm thinking that the vin is causing your problems.


BTW What Macbim, said about dealing with the Dmv special plates unit is my prefered method I call Albany as well, the people on the phone in that office have always been very nice and helpful ,not what I'd expect of the N.Y. Dmv. Hopefully the police officer can help you out.

 

[FrostByte]

Is it possible car was stolen at some point & vin # changed? Hope not cause if so you could lose the car.

 

[classicpony]

The other option would be to contact the Vintage Plate department. I know you are not talking plates yet, but I have heard that they know more about vintage cars and maybe more helpful then just walking into a local DMV.

Also, you did say if the pencil trace you did was from the door tag or the inner fender? I'm curious if those two match up.

The Trace was from the inner fender under the hood. I was going to pull the fenders off to check for other VINs, but I was afraid to mess up the alignment so I left it alone.

 

[classicpony]

I'd be very curious as to what the full vin of your car is as well as the scheduled build date(on the door tag). If you don't feel like posting or P/ming it too me ,I understand.
As far as I understand it no Mustang "D" ,"F" ,or "U" codes were produced at the San jose plant. Ford built all of the early stangs at Dearborn. When demand went crazy they quickly retooled and started production at Metuchen (code T) and San Jose (code R) . But by then the early 65 (64 1/2) motors were done. Digging through my extensive Mustang library The earliest San jose vin I'm coming up with is 5R07K125012 and that car has a scheduled build date of August 3rd 1965. Is your vin or build date lower than these by chance? Other sources are telling me that production on the Mustang began on July 13th 1964 at San jose. honestly there are a few more variables ,but my fingers won't let me type them all, If your car was built after August 1964,it's considered a 65 . Does your car have an alternator or a generator?

As an early Mustang Geek/Historian I'm dying to know your numbers for my own curiosity.

I'm thinking that the vin is causing your problems.


BTW What Macbim, said about dealing with the Dmv special plates unit is my prefered method I call Albany as well, the people on the phone in that office have always been very nice and helpful ,not what I'd expect of the N.Y. Dmv. Hopefully the police officer can help you out.

Its funny you say this Ponyboy, the moment I started getting questions on the second letter in the VIN, i began research on the car and I too got conflicting reports of the where the 64.5 mustangs were produced. This truly is a 64.5 mustang, but branded as a 65 Mustang -- i know its 64.5 because the interior says GEN instead of ALT. I'll PM you the full VIN as I am as curious as you are.

 

[classicpony]

Is it possible car was stolen at some point & vin # changed? Hope not cause if so you could lose the car.

i certainly hope not..

 

[mabcim]

If you don't mind, keep me posted as well; this is really curious.
The build date for mine was July 30 64 and has all the 64.5 stuff.
You can buy repo gauge clusters that will have GEN, so that unfortunetly isn't enough to say its a 64. With it being a clone I'm assuming the motor is totally different than stock, so no way to tell looking at that.
Some items are a maybe a little harder to change:
1. radiator support (in front of the battery) are bent out vents (not the 4 oval holes, but cut-outs that look like the metal was bent towards the grill). If front clip was changed, these might not be there. P60174 Image Large Photo 4 look below the hood bumper in this pic
2. the top of headlamp bezel (between headlight and grill) is bevelled (see above pic, but again could be swapped out if front clip changed)
3. the lip of the hood (that aligns with bezel I just meantioned) extends down vs being bend in (but the hood could easily have been replaced) P60173 Image Large Photo 3
4. also on a 64 hood there are no holes underneath that are used to hold the chrome lip molding.
5. horns are a big and mounted on the frame vs the radiator support P60178 Image Large Photo 8

Those are the 'harder' things to change out, but that could easily have been changed. Anything else that is 64 is very easy to change.

 

[ponyboy289]

I'd be very curious as to what the full vin of your car is as well as the scheduled build date(on the door tag). If you don't feel like posting or P/ming it too me ,I understand.
As far as I understand it no Mustang "D" ,"F" ,or "U" codes were produced at the San jose plant. Ford built all of the early stangs at Dearborn. When demand went crazy they quickly retooled and started production at Metuchen (code T) and San Jose (code R) . But by then the early 65 (64 1/2) motors were done. Digging through my extensive Mustang library The earliest San jose vin I'm coming up with is 5R07K125012 and that car has a scheduled build date of August 3rd 1965. Is your vin or build date lower than these by chance? Other sources are telling me that production on the Mustang began on July 13th 1964 at San jose. honestly there are a few more variables ,but my fingers won't let me type them all, If your car was built after August 1964,it's considered a 65 . Does your car have an alternator or a generator?

As an early Mustang Geek/Historian I'm dying to know your numbers for my own curiosity.

I'm thinking that the vin is causing your problems.


BTW What Macbim, said about dealing with the Dmv special plates unit is my prefered method I call Albany as well, the people on the phone in that office have always been very nice and helpful ,not what I'd expect of the N.Y. Dmv. Hopefully the police officer can help you out.

Hey all,
So as a Mustang Geek I did a bunch of digging and learning ,which is why I love these kind of posts. I would like to amend what I posted above as I dug deeper last night I came up with more info and a first San Jose 64 1/2 Vin as being 5R08D100011 with a scheduled production date of 14G (july 14th) .

Classic pony thanks for emailing me your vin,I'll keep it on the DL. The suspense was killing me.LOL As your reward I will tell you that the scheduled build date of your car should fall within the dates of 24G-27G. July 24TH-27TH.This should be helpful as your door tag is M.I.A.

So as near as I can tell your vin is legit.

Now tell DMV To stop being a bunch of jerks and let you register the car.

 

[ponyboy289]

If you don't mind, keep me posted as well; this is really curious.
The build date for mine was July 30 64 and has all the 64.5 stuff.
You can buy repo gauge clusters that will have GEN, so that unfortunetly isn't enough to say its a 64. With it being a clone I'm assuming the motor is totally different than stock, so no way to tell looking at that.
Some items are a maybe a little harder to change:
1. radiator support (in front of the battery) are bent out vents (not the 4 oval holes, but cut-outs that look like the metal was bent towards the grill). If front clip was changed, these might not be there. P60174 Image Large Photo 4 look below the hood bumper in this pic
2. the top of headlamp bezel (between headlight and grill) is bevelled (see above pic, but again could be swapped out if front clip changed)
3. the lip of the hood (that aligns with bezel I just meantioned) extends down vs being bend in (but the hood could easily have been replaced) P60173 Image Large Photo 3
4. also on a 64 hood there are no holes underneath that are used to hold the chrome lip molding.
5. horns are a big and mounted on the frame vs the radiator support P60178 Image Large Photo 8

Those are the 'harder' things to change out, but that could easily have been changed. Anything else that is 64 is very easy to change.

Great post, I love Trivial stuff like this.

I'd like to ad a couple of more for fun and trivial purposes.

A hard one to fake would be the way the spare tire is held down on 641/2's. Later cars used a J hook design. Where as early cars used a Carriage bolt setup with a unique mounting bracket welded to the floor. This was specific to 64 1/2 although it did make it's way into some early 65 cars.

The brake light switch is mounted on the master cylinders on 64 1/2's as well with it's unique wiring.

other easy ones to change:

interior lock knobs were colored keyed plastic to the interior color.

The door sill plates had a different shape at the ends(the originals only)

The arm rest bases had a unique shape as well .

The carpets ended at the rockers and there was vinyl trim used the rest of the way.

The toe pad attached to the carpet was also unique.

The vent knob for the drivers side fresh air vent had a white A on it(later cars were all black).

A fixed position passenger seat

There's a bunch more.

 

[classicpony]

Hey all,
So as a Mustang Geek I did a bunch of digging and learning ,which is why I love these kind of posts. I would like to amend what I posted above as I dug deeper last night I came up with more info and a first San Jose 64 1/2 Vin as being 5R08D100011 with a scheduled production date of 14G (july 14th) .

Classic pony thanks for emailing me your vin,I'll keep it on the DL. The suspense was killing me.LOL As your reward I will tell you that the scheduled build date of your car should fall within the dates of 24G-27G. July 24TH-27TH.This should be helpful as your door tag is M.I.A.

So as near as I can tell your vin is legit.

Now tell DMV To stop being a bunch of jerks and let you register the car.

WOW! This is phenomenal news, and the best part was I learned even more about these classic ponies than i thought i already knew! Out of curiosity ponyboy -- how'd you narrow down the build date so precisely?

also, if I'm reading this right, the previous owner told me that the stang i got from him was one of the first 500 stangs built out of that factory, based on the evidence here, I'm assuming this might be true and he wasn't lying... i didn't believe him at first, but it sounds like it might be true..

BTW -- Update to all, i got a PO to inspect the vehicle and i have the signed paper work to take to DMV tomorrow! Ill try my luck one last time at that DMV and if it doesn't work i will go to another dmv. ill keep you guys posted!

Lastly -- great other posts on the 64.5 verifications! I'm going to check this up.

 

[ponyboy289]

Hey,
I was able to get that close on your Vin date by digging through my Library. Years ago Two guys named Jim Smart(he works for the Mustang Magazines) and Jim Haskell worked on a project called "In Search of Mustangs" what they were trying to do was basically have a registry of any known Vins/ Cars. Basically they asked people to send in any vin info they had including scouring Junkyards and such and they would put them in order.Plus people would write if they owned the car,if it was a parts car etc. My friend (And Mentor) and I must have sent them 100 vins. Basically they published the registry a few times called "Mustang Production Guide" It's out of print and can cost some decent money on Ebay and such. It's not going to help you fix your car but it has some interesting tidbits and such in it. So basically that's how I narrowed it down by looking in my different editions of that book.

The other stuff I pick up from owning and working on these cars for years.
I have one of the largest early Mustang libraries around.I don't mean it in a boastful way, I'm pretty OCD On this. I have every issue of Mustang Monthly (1978-present) , Mustang illustrated, Mustangs and Fords, Fabulous Mustangs, etc. They are all arranged in binders in proper order, I also have a staggering amount of books, shop manuals, wiring diagrams,etc for 1964-1973 Mustangs and other Fords.Yes it sounds pretty anal. But it is very helpful to my friends and I as far as reference, and such. I once was going to try to put up a sticky post to let other Members know in case they ever wanted me to look something up, etc. But I couldn't figure out the whole sticky thing. If anybody ever needs anything looked up or scanned and emailed,etc. Let me know.

As far as your car being one of the first 500,that's tough to tell for many reasons In my opinion it doesn't add or take anything away from the car in terms of "Rarity", value,collectibility,etc. First looking at your number on your vin I would guess no. Then you have to figure in that the cars didn't always go down the line in order.Cars would get kicked out if there were defects noted in the car or especially if the parts were not present at the time, Yes Ford would improvise a bit but if it were a critical piece the cars might not be built in order.

Unfortunately production data for 65-66 Mustangs is basically extinct because Ford destroyed the records back in the day. Fortunately for later year owners somebody Had the forsight to grab the data before it too got ruined .Which is why Marti reports are only available on 67-later cars.

 

[classicpony]

Great news folks, FINALLY GOT MY PLATES!! Woohoo!!! Thanks for everyone's help and support!

​

 

[classicpony]

The VIN couldn't be found in DMV database, so lesson learned. Always take a pic of the vin an if possible, get a PO to endorse the Vin for proof. Most PO's will have no clue what your talking about so try and find an elder cop at a precinct to ask for a bin verification.

​

 

[mabcim]

ponyboy 289 - forgot about the spare tire hold down.
Great job digging around. I didn't think any 64s were built in San Jose, so that is good info to know.

classicpony - glad things finally worked out with the DMV. Even more glad that the VIN worked out.